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 governor of New York state at that time. They were trying to improve the school
 system in New York state, and there were various proposals to do it. Among
 proposals was the Stray-Ingerhart-Mart Proposal. Mart had really designed it;
 Stray and Ingerhart were not so much technicians as they were promoters,
 speakers, and pushers. Now, Mart was a technician--he is more like I am in
 that--and a politician in the sense that he will go out and work for legislatures and
 so on.

 Well, there was a committee in the New York legislature that worked and worked
 for days and days on developing a plan for improving the school financing
 system of New York state, and they could not agree on anything. Al Smith was
 a very positive sort of person. He got those committees together; he said, "I am
 putting you on this committee. I will bring in food and water, but I am going to
 keep the door locked, and you people are going to stay here until you agree on a
 plan, a proposal for the legislature." And he did that. He locked them up until
 way after midnight, and they agreed on Mart's plan. That is the way of the plan
 of equalization of educational opportunities [was passed in New York].

C: Okay. When the school plant survey [was taken] in 1947, in Alachua County we
 had J. Pope Baird, James Campbell [professor of education], Dr. Leps, Dr.
 Morphet, and you all on that committee. Were you a team that did most of the
 surveys throughout the state, or did the team change?

J: That team traveled, especially Pope Baird, Dr. Leps, and sometimes Dr.
 Morphet. Dr. Morphet went to the University of California in 1949.

C: To Berkeley?

J: Yes. He became a professor at the University of California in 1949, so he did
 not stay here very long to participate in those things.

 There was a coldness between Dr. Morphet and Colin English. Morphet did not
 want him to run for governor. He thought he was trying to capitalize on the
 Foundation Program in order to hurt the Foundation Program, so there was a
 cool relationship between Morphet and Colin English, something like the
 relationship between Andrew Young [mayor of Atlanta, GA] and Jesse Jackson
 [religious and political activist]. Young was afraid Jackson would hurt the
 campaign to defeat [President Ronald] Reagan. It was a matter of policy.

 By the way, I was a visiting lecturer out at the University of California in the
 summer of 1949. I started to lecture at a number of institutions. After work
 here in Florida, I was offered professorship after professorship. I went [to
 Auburn University] as a young doctoral graduate, twenty-seven years of age.
 Then the president [of Auburn University] found out that I knew something about