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 were in there, and she followed that. She's dead now so they can't hurt her, but
 Bula was very valuable. She also was connected with something National out in
 California. I'd be talking with her on the telephone and I told her she was
 assigned to watching me. She would be writing and she would say wait a minute
 you're writing too fast, how do you spell that last name. [I would say] are you
 writing down everything that I say. [laughing] She would say yes, I like what
 you're saying. Anyhow, I know that there was an organization which was also
 kind of human relations, but I can't think of their name. Things about us were in
 that magazine that they put out. Anyhow, Bula was such a dear little old black
 lady in and she'd come around here and just bring me boxes of stuff that
 kept me in touch with what was going on.

W: Well, of course in the white press in Richmond the segregationists pretty much
 had a field day.

S: Oh they did, but just like I said, half the time she could say who they were and
 how it was an organized thing. [She would say] this group that was writing on this
 day were from this particular group and so forth.

W: Right, it's not just members of the general public.

S: [They were] not just the general public, but nobody knew that. She got around
 everywhere, I told her you're with the FBI. I got a notice from Bula that they were
 bringing Birth of a Nation back in one of the county theaters. They were not
 putting the notice in the papers, they were putting them under the windshield in
 the dash boards of cars in the outlying areas, so we were not supposed to know
 about it. We found out about that and we were able to set up a committee and
 deal with that. Now I didn't go to that one, but they were able to stop it from
 coming again.

W: When it finally came how smooth and effective was school integration in
 Richmond?

S: It went on very well. If it had stayed around here and left people time to see it,
 well I think it would have been the first time some of children would have known
 that they were supposed to be inferior. They just didn't know that. I mean our
 children were strong, and we have seen our children go backwards, absolutely
 backwards with integration. First of all, you had white teachers. I think the
 children could have made it, but the families were running our to the counties
 and they were changing schools every week or something. It was a mess. It
 was smooth; there wasn't violence or fighting or anything, it actually went fairly
 smoothly as I could see it. The white teachers did not understand black children.
 We know more about white people than they know about us because we live in
 their world. Our world was over there and they didn't even know we were over