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S: Yeah, they were paid staff. I'm talking about the people who were on the state
 council board. I do know that one of the activities we had Arthur Ashe worked
 with us in a fund-raising project. I have a newsletter that has his picture with all
 of us who worked with him.

W: It's interesting because what that tells us is just how local local activism was in a
 way.

S: Right, it depends on where you were. In all these other communities, once they
 had an uprising it pushed the black community together. We get compliments
 for keeping Richmond from exploding because we were very active in meeting a
 cross line. I would say, in fact I have said in this book that the cohesiveness that
 came in the deep South, after those days of marching and so forth, they became
 one community. Richmond community is very divided. There's a difference
 between the Negro community and the black community. Negroes may be more
 people who really are black but they would rather be white. The city uses this.
 They are very able to identify those people who will sell out the community.
 There's this other group who I would say was the black community who are black
 people who really want to be black and want to know more about their heritage
 and want to pull together. It was very good then; we had a very cohesive
 interracial mix. It came to light while his funeral. A lot of this community came
 back, and he was in the Unitarian church and he had nice people.

W: Do you think most of the white who became activists or in some way supported
 black aspirations, do you think they came from a church background?

S: I know the Unitarian church was very active, and all denominations were involved
 in some way. I know Andrew Lee was a treasurer for a long time and I think he
 was in the All Souls Presbyterian Church. All Souls was initially a white church.
 It became more integrated during that period. I know I've gone to those
 Southern Regional Council, and it's just that the funding for the Southern
 Regional Council came through the Rockefeller Foundation a lot, a great deal. I
 remember at the state council in Danville it was revealed that we had been
 working, while we weren't looking, they had cast a law that these foundations
 who supported groups who had an agenda that would challenge government
 could not be considered non-profit. Am I describing it correctly?

W: Sort of, yeah there was a restriction on the way that the foundations were able to
 fund certain organizations. They had to be specifically involved in non-partisan
 educational work or something like that, and it was loosely defined.

S: Right, and this came out in a speak easy in Danville. It was a large blow
 because it meant that they would be taxed. Therefore, we knew we were going