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W: So there could have been also some retribution not just against you but
 elsewhere.

S: Yes exactly, they could hurt my family. They had also some opportunities to get
 in trouble because they had public jobs.

W: Let's talk a little bit about the relationship between the Richmond Council on
 Human Relations and the statewide organization and the Southern Regional
 Council, the over-watching organization. Give us a sense of that sort of
 hierarchy.

S: Yeah, I'm aware of the hierarchy. You've heard of Ruth Charity right?

W: Yes.

S: She was president of the state council. I became vice-president in some later
 days and Curtis Harris was in the state office here. I was trying to think, I don't
 really know why when those lawyers came I used Harris' office to interview
 them. I don't know why noone was with me because it was a big day. I
 remember going to the state conferences, one I especially remember was in
 Danville. I went to a Southern Regional Council meeting in Atlanta because we
 got snowed in down there. They had three inches of snow and they weren't
 used to having snow. We stayed there for two or three days longer than we
 were supposed to. I'm trying to think of whose __ it was. Who was the white
 woman who was in the middle of the council. We stayed together after ruth went
 home. Ruth was an undertaker and she had a funeral, so she called her
 husband and I think she could get a train into North Carolina and he went there
 to pick her up because they had a body and they had to get this funeral done.
 So I stayed another three days and I will think of maybe who it was, but we just
 hung out together and had a good time. There's a Dawn Reese. Dawn was
 director of Atlanta Center. This was a place that served tons of people. Linda
 Whirley, have you run into her?

W: No, these are on the state council.

S: No, this is back in local council board.

W: Okay, too many councils.

S: I don't know that I knew the people on the state board, the council.

W: Obviously, Curtis Harris ends up there and Frank Adams was the executive
 director.