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S: Yes, and we had very strong pastors.

W: Can you name some of those pastors, tell me the ones that were very influential
 and impressive to you.

S: Well in my church there was Dr. W. L. Ranson.

W: This is First Baptist?

S: This is First Baptist and he baptized me. Then of course he was on the faculty at
 Virginia Union, and therefore sometimes he taught us in church. He taught from
 a pulpit as well as the classes we had in college. So we had a double shot of his
 wisdom. He was a very amazing person in terms of his knowledge and wisdom.


W: Is he someone who you would describe as sort of an activist preacher, a civil
 rights activist?

S: There's a section in here and I have tried to put out some pages because I
 thought there would be the opportunity for you to sort of look at some of this.
 Yes, he was. He started the Negro City Council. I may have gotten the name
 wrong, but anyway he organized it and he was the first president. We had extra
 reports of his work in here. Yes, he did some unusual things. He ran for the
 Senate of Virginia forty-five years before the first black representative was
 elected in 1969. He came to us in 1920, and in the 1940s and 1950s he was
 running for office. [He was] making the people who were running for office come
 and speak to his organization. It was an organization that had two
 representatives from each of about 100 organizations. Therefore, it was a very
 strong organization. Like I was saying, he spoke to the general assembly. That
 was not usual, but he asked that black history would be taught in the schools.
 They were saying what manner of man is this. First of all, they couldn't believe it
 was there and then he was very articulate. They said they would be very happy
 to put the Negro history in the schools, but you know they didn't. They did not
 have anyone to teach it. It wasn't qualified. It amazes me what people don't
 know about us, positives. He told him well he had a son who had just majored in
 history at Columbia. I think he had gotten a masters. He gave him his
 credentials and his Negro history instructor was he, and he was a doctor then
 too. There were doctors during that period. I saw the Mays papers in the Virginia
 Historical Society. Have you come across those?

W: Benjamin Mays papers?

S: No, not that Mays, this is another Mays who was a part of the Byrd machine. He