9.
so we can't even begin to understand the rest of the world on which we're becoming increasingly dependent. This is not near post-World War II, it is far-post and this is a very, very different world in which the United States had better learn, with the other western powers, how to relate more productively and sensitively to the other member states in this world.
QUESTIONS /ANSWERS
X: To what extent will world powers, ourselves included, decide to bring any
pressures to bear on South Africa, remembering that as far as precious
and strategic metals go, they are in a very good position?
R: A very good question. I think that by their own volition, the answer
is no. What is going to have to happen here, you're going to have to
see the population in the United States begin to make this a large moral issue. I think that's the real, great service to this country that the
Vietnam protest movement served, that it cut short the war, and that's
going to have to happen with regard to Southern Africa too. These
countries have a real huge conflict of interest here now. Great Britain has half its foreign investment in South Africa, and the British economy
is pretty ragged as it is, so there's not much base of support for a
British withdrawal or support for sanctions. It going to be hard to do.
In addition, the black population in Great Britain is much smaller than
it is here and less well organized. So that would be very difficult
there. The other leaders in South African investment, of course, are the
United States, West Germany, with about sixteen, seventeen per cent apiece.
In very strategic areas. With those corporations making pretty sizable
amounts of profit because of the system so that it's not going to be easy
to win U.S. support. You recall too that most of the world has already agreed to the imposition of sanctions, even the Scandanavian countries.
Sweden has moved on that legislatively at home and gives aid to
ANC, PAC, SWAPO, and other similar groups. Sweden, with 8,000,000 people, gives half as much foreign assistance as the United States. A remarkable
ratio. But when you get right down to the countries that can make the
sanctions work, essentially there are five countries: Great Britain,
West Germany, the U.S., France and Canada. Those are five with interest, and those are the five that have always blocked the sanctions. So that's
not going to be easy to do. It was one thing to have them impose sanctionE
against Rhodesia, it is quite another thing for them to impose sanctions against South Africa, because they have a much larger interest conflict.
I think there' s going to have to be some mushrooming of an anti-South
Africa feeling in this country to even get them to move in that direction.
I think it's the only way to check Reagan, because I think this is an issue
they don't want to go public on, since the record here is so indefensible.
They don't want to have to talk about it publicly, so it's to our advantage to try to push it into the public place .........The United States
sometimes uses governments as sort of client states through which they
move things to South Africa. Saudi Arabia is one, not to South Africa but
to other places. Obviously, Morocco has been another. And with respect
to South Africa, Israel has been one. There are a lot of weapons that
go to South Africa from Israel that A're assembled from western components,
including American components. And the Israeli relationship with South