210 DOCUMENTARY HISTORY OF THE FLORIDA CANAL

 Senator FzwCHER. And they decided that 8 cents a ton would be a
fair toll, I believe.
 Secretary Icxzs. I could not say. I don't know as to that.
 Senator FLmzCm. And did they determine that the number of
transit would be about 10,000 per annum ?
 Secretary Icxzs. I don't know about that, Senator. It does not
show here.
 Senator VANDENzEBG. Excuse me--I would like to keep the record
clear at that point. The estimate of transits through the canal was
purely hypothetical. It was not based upon any evidence of actual
users expressing a willingness to use it. It was based solely upon a
computation of what would happen if the traffic in that area had used
the canal or would use it if it were built. It is a hypothetical com-
putation.
 Senator FxLECHEB. Of course, you would have to make estimates
of that. You cannot tell what is going through there until it is
available for use. But the expert engineers estimated that that
tonnage would move through that canal.
 Senator VANDmNBMEG. Yes; but, Senator, is it not a fact that ordi-
narily when an economic survey is made they inquire of the potential
users, whether the canal would be used, and that in this instance the
board did not make an inquiry of that character ?
 Senator FLETCHE. The engineers went back to 1929 and they did
make that inquiry. They went back, estimated the amount of com-
merce moving out of the Gulf into the Atlantic the other way in 1929.
They got all those figures, the number of ships that come from the
Gulf, passed from the Gulf to the Atlantic coast and to foreign ports,
and the number of ships passing in that direction from foreign ports
and from the Atlantic. About 70 percent of this business would be
coastwise business, they estimate, and 30 percent would be foreign.
They found out the number of ships. They ascertained exactly what
ships had passed to the Gulf and out of the Gulf up until 1929, and
then I think they went on to 1931. Based upon those facts, the
number of ships actually using the Gulf and using the Atlantic coast
and other ports, they estimate that the tonnage would be about
45,000,000 tons likely to pass through that canal, about 10,000 transits
per annum. That is the estimate the engineers made.
 Now, of course, those are all estimates, and the amount of revenue
would be greatly increased if you raised the toll from 8 cents a ton
to 15 cents a ton.
 Senator VAND.ENmEo. And greatly reduced as you take it off
entirely, as is now the proposition?
 Senator FLETCHa Of course, you do not get any tolls at all if
you make it a free canal. But the estimate was that the benefits to
the ships would be from 17 to 21 cents a ton. What a ship would be
willing to pay for tolls out of its benefits-say its benefits were 17
cents a ton: Would not they be willing to pay practically all of those
benefits for the privilege of using the canal ? The engineers estimated
8 cents a ton, which would be about 45 percent of the benefits they
considered. Of course, the amount of toll and the amount of tonnage
would have to be both considered in connection with the question of
revenue which would be determined. The engineers estimated that
$702 a ship would be the benefit to the ship, and they took from that
$315 of tolls.