DOCUMENTARY HISTORY OF THE FLORIDA CANAL 131

the American people, without toll. However, if tolls were to be charged, and
I think they should not be, then it will retire its indebtedness in the form
of 2- or 8-percent bonds in about 80 years.
 Mr. Cawrr. That is the question I was coming to, as to whether or not
the gentleman had estimated the amount of tolls in the event tolls were to be
charged?
 Mr. GaPs. The tolls will be sufficient to retire the bonds in less than 30
years, and with a sea-level canal, 35 feet deep, there will hardly be any upkeep.
We do not think that it should be a toll canal
 (Here the gavel fell.)
 Mr. GCas. Mr. Speaker, I have been interrupted so much that I ask unani-
mous consent to proceed for another 15 minutes.
 The Spaxmu pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the gentleman
from Florida?
 (There was no objection.)
 Mr. ComEN. Will the gentleman from Florida state how much is now being
paid for the shipment of cotton from the Gulf ports by water to New England
and by rail, and how much additional savings would be made by shipping
through the proposed Florida canal?
 Mr. Ganm. I shall be glad to incorporate that.
 Mr. MorT. Will the gentleman yield?
 Mr. GRm. I yield to the gentleman from Oregon.
 Mr. Morr. What is the gentleman's idea as to a proper toll charge for that
canal?
 Mr. GQzaN. The Panama Canal paid this past year between sixteen and
eighteen million dollars, net. This canal will carry one-third to one-half more
tonnage than the Panama Canal. I would say, on the average, there would be
more than $20,000,000 in tolls, if tolls should be charged.
 Mr. MorT. The gentleman misunderstood me. What is the gentleman's idea
of a proper toll for an average-sized freight-carrying ship passing through
that canal?
 Mr. Grma. I have not estimated that; however, in justification for the
project the Public Works engineers and the Army engineers considered the
toll feature; and in that regard, coupled with the unemployment feature, they
all, I understand, practically agreed it is justifiable and feasible.
 Mr. MorT. If a toll is charged, of course, the amount of the toll has to be
taken into consideration in figuring the saving made in the freight.
 Mr. Gamr. They have done that, and they found that the ships would pay
the toll and use the canal rather than go around the Florida Peninsula. So it
would be more economical even if they had to pay a toll. However, we are
not building this, we hope, as a toll canaL It is to be a straight river-and-
harbor project for the benefit of the American people.
 Mr. Morr. Will the gentleman tell me how long it will take a ship to go
 through this canal?
 Mr. GamN. I shall come to that later.
 Mr. MAwRSIU Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield?
 Mr. Gima. I yield to the gentleman from Texas.
 Mr. MAleNsnm. The gentleman from California [Mr. Colden] asked with
 respect to the difference in rail and water rates on cotton from the Gulf to New
 England mills, we will say. The present rate on cotton, by ship, from Galveston
 is $1.75 a bale, and by rail it is $7.70 a bale.
 Mr. Gas. That is quite a saving; about 75 percent, and represents the
 saving the people will realize generally after the canal is constructed.
 Mr. Morr. How long will it take a ship to go through that canal?
 Mr. GCaN. It will save 8 days per round trip.
 Is the gentleman interested in the Columbia River Valley project?
 Mr. Morr. Yes; very much, indeed.
 Mr. GumN. So am I.
 Mr. LEA of California. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield?
 Mr. GasN. I yield to the gentleman from California.
 Mr: LuA of California. Referring to the income from the Panama Canal, did
 the gentleman refer to net or gross income?
 Mr. Gaum. I understand it runs more than $16,000,000 net, or around
 $20,000,000 gross in 1933.
 Mr. LEA of California. Yes; that is true, and this last year it was over
 $25,000,000.