R: How old was I? I guess I was forty-four.

P: You need to begin making some decisions now of where you are going to be.

R: That is right.

P: Nothing that you had done up until that time, either, gave you very much in the way
 of fringe benefits.

R: No. Retirement. The only retirement I had was those three or four years I had
 previously been at the University, but nothing at any chamber jobs, or at the bank,
 although the bank had a kind of peanut plan. They developed a much better plan
 later on.

P: But nothing [solid], really, and you are in your middle forties.

R: That is right. So I say, "Mary, if we go back now that means I commit myself to
 education for the rest of my life." We agreed that that was not a bad thing to do,
 and that is what we would do. So we gave up the lovely house we had only been
 living in for about eighteen months, and moved to Gainesville.

P: Where did you live in Gainesville?

R: Suburban Heights was just being developed and we bought a real nice house from
 the builder Mason.

P: Fred Mason.

R: Yes. A lovely house with a swimming pool and all that, so everybody was happy with
 the living arrangements. [We] came back to Gainesville, and this was, I guess, about
 September or October of 1964. A funny thing happened, you know how the poor
 University is under the thumb of the Tallahassee red tape, the DOA [Department
 of Administration] decides that $19,000 is too much, and I can only get $18,500, to
 Wayne's terrible embarrassment.

P: So you get an office in Tigert Hall?

R: Yes. And began to work.

P: Let us talk about that. Tell me what you were doing, because this is the early history
 of the University of Florida Foundation.

R: Yes it is. There were two things, Sam, which I felt were a problem. I do not say
 this because I want to cause any ill-feeling, but the alumni association seemed to me
 to have really all control over what they did and how they spent the little bit of


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