R: I am now telling you how that happened. So, anyway, I am now at the bank and
 have been at the bank for several years.

P: How did Mr. Fagan feel about the Lehigh development?

R: Well, I had talked with him a great deal about it, and Mr. Fagan was willing to
 accept my judgement that these people probably would do the right thing.

P: And did not all of them think it was an economic boom to this area of the state?

R: Not at the time. They felt like it maybe would be something where the [developer's
 staff] would all pack up and leave.

P: They still remembered the real estate boom of the 1920s.

R: Yes. And they could not imagine anybody buying land out there. They could not
 imagine anybody living out there. Really!

P: So far away from everything.

R: And Sam, the truth of the matter is, you can understand it. I went out there a few
 times with Jerry [Gould] in the jeep and said, "Jerry, you guys [sure this will work]?"

P: It [the development] still there?

R: Oh, it has 40,000 people.

P: Oh, okay. Maybe I can get a graduate student to write a history of it.

R: So now here we are, and I am at the bank, and Lehigh Acres is growing and
 booming and developing. So one day Jerry called me up and said, "Let us go to
 lunch." I have helped them a lot. When I got to the bank, we developed a banking
 relationship with Lehigh, and did a lot of things with them. Mr. Fagan got to know
 Jerry and liked him. The whole situation was very positive between us [at the bank]
 and Lehigh Acres.

P: Does Ratner ever appear on the scene?

R: Well, Ratner really was a character. He was a wild man. The less you saw of him,
 the better.

P: So [Jerry] Gould was the man.

R: Jerry Gould was the man, right. And Jerry, by this time, had four or five kids. We
 used to go out and visit with them. We were good friends, Jerry Gould and I. So


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