MCBC 8 page 13

 what he led me to believe, that I was supposed to hold the fort. That is exactly
 what I did.

B: Returning to the standoff situation, my understanding is that there was some sort
 of preliminary meeting in the corridor and then the retreat into the
 superintendent's office. Can you elaborate on that?

H: We had planned it that way, that we would let them come in and make the pitch
 to me for whatever they wanted to say and, if they tried to arrest me, they would
 hold them out in the corridor and we would just go into the superintendent's
 office and I would lock the door. If they tried to proceed any farther, I would have
 to just react from that. I did not know what they would do. Like I said, they finally
 told me I was under arrest, and when they did, why, the federal marshal reached
 for my arm, and when he did, I just jerked it back and they just put him back up
 against the wall.

B: The deputies did?

H: Yes.

B: Because they outnumbered the marshals, correct?

H: Sure. There was not any real struggling or anything like that from the marshals. I
 mean, tried to be as diplomatic under a condition like that as you can be. It is
 pretty hard to be diplomatic.

B: There were some news reports that Mickey Newberger was actually struck
 during this situation. Was that correct?

H: Well, like I said, they put him back pretty fast and pretty hard. I do not think they
 deliberately ever tried to strike him. Maybe in the process of trying to keep him
 from grabbing me, because he reached for me and said you are under arrest. Of
 course, like I said, he had cleared his jacket right before [where his gun was],
 and I guess any law enforcement officer would do that automatically. You know,
 he cannot reach his gun if his coat is buttoned. And like I said, I cleared mine
 and jokingly said, I hope it does not come to that. But I do not think any of them
 hit him deliberately. Of course, I was busy getting everybody turned and going
 the other way, to get out of there.

B: So, it was you and Hoffman who were there?

H: Right. We were the only ones I can remember at this point. Others could have
 been back there, but I just do not remember. I know I am the one who faced the
 marshals, and they asked me if I understood the order and was I going to cease
 and desist and vacate the property, and I told them no, we were not going to do