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G: little beads. We had to try to screen through window screen or

W: Water floating it that day

G: No. - ., L but the sand won't hold a .,

 The bones were in sad shape. The iron was rusty but it was a great dig neverthe-

 less. We did get, I think, considerable amount of information out of it and that was

 where we first started to struggle with this business about what are these things,

 these historical items that you find. The literature was very meagre. For beads,

 there were only a couple of publications and one of them was the sort of classic

 study by the Museum of the American Indian written by William Orchard on beads and

 bead work of the American indians and, as it turned out, Orchard was retired and living

 over on the southeast coast of the state. So we took a little trip and we visited

 Orchard and picked his brains and some of the other sites a little bit later that we

 got into, I sent stuff up to ,,,; Thomas at Williamsburg, it was at the time,

 and got back some information but, and we went out and bought the books on, Wyler's

 book on silver and things like this which are all the antique collector type of stuff

 and not the material you find in the ground. It's one of the most amazing things is

 the real development of understanding of the typology if you will of material culture

 which is what the archeologist deals with. We were completely lost.

W: Were you going back to some of the records then, some of the Spanish documents and

G: Not a great deal at that particular time.

W: Was Dr. Boyd working on that?

G: Dr. Boyd was not working with us quite yet til we got into the missions. And about

 all we had was that little translated thing of wet holes of the Bishop Calderon's

 visit. The person who helped us out the most on the few mentions of trade items or

 historic items at that particular time was Al Manusi here at the Castille. He had

 gone through the North Carolina collection of Spanish documents and had on cards some

 notes of the contents, sort of a calendar of the collection upathe fort, and I remember

 going there and he had a primitive edge knot system, indians, military and so forth