T: Yes, there is some. Had we never had a United Arts, we would have become
 adjusted to the amount of money we could raise, which would be less than we have
 now. But if we got adjusted to that, then of course it is not vulnerable to United
 Arts going out of business. Right now if it suddenly went out of business it would
 be a disaster for all of us because we have budgets based on getting quite a bit of
 money from them. It is very difficult to cut your budgets substantially in most
 organizations, practically impossible.

S: Well, I am thinking on the personal level, what kind of things made you interested
 in supporting the arts? What was your earliest exposure to music?

T: We used to have music in the house in Toledo. We had a pipe organ. Nobody
 played the organ by hand, but we had rolls, and we used to play the phonograph.

S: You mean piano rolls?

T: Well, the organ had rolls cut for it.

S: Oh, interesting.

T: Of course, it is more realistic in the piano. With a piano, the way in which you press
 the key controls the quality of the tone, whereas in an organ you make a contact
 when the key is down or you do not. It is either on or off.

S: Right.

T: Well, you can do that with a roll. It can make a contact so you do not really lose
 touch or quality in playing a roll, and they get a good organist playing a piece and
 what he does is transferred to little holes in the role--like a piano, same thing.

S: Right.

T: Then when you play it, it plays just like the organist played it.

S: So you came from a musical family.

T: No. My mother played the piano a little like a lot of women do, just for herself. I
 would not say it was a musical family, but I did hear quite a little music when I was
 young. I think that may have had something to do with my interest in music.

S: Right. Yes, I read that you grew up in Toledo.

T: Yes.


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