T: Well, I do not. That is not exactly consistent with what I am doing, because I am
 urging the State of Florida to give us all it can. I would not say that it should be
 kept to a minimum, except for the cost to the taxpayers, but you know in Europe
 there is practically no private money that goes into the arts. The operas and
 symphonies are entirely paid for by the government. Well over here, I think that we
 are very lucky that nearly all of the money is paid for by private gifts and only a
 small part by the government. But when you look at the alternative to what we are
 doing, the government doing everything, I think that we are just real lucky that we
 get as much as we do, but there is nothing wrong with the government giving you
 something.

S: Do you think that if we depended to much on the national endowment, things like
 that, that they would dictate what we needed to [do], how we needed to run our
 organizations?

T: They have not. That, of course, would be awful, if they used their power in grants
 to control the way we are doing things, but I do not think that has happened so far.
 I think the only place we have heard a squawk is in the photography recently, where
 Mr...

S: [Robert] Mapplethorpe.

T: The gentlemen was Mapplethorpe. It was so bad that some of the people in the
 government began objecting to paying for it, but unless you get something that is
 extreme, I do not think the government interferes with what we are doing.

S: How about the educational side, building up your audience through music in the
 schools?

T: In most of these cases, to do a good job it takes more money than you can raise
 yourself. That is the characteristic of art, and it seems to be also characteristic of
 music and art--the higher the quality of the organization, the bigger the deficit. If
 you try to run high quality things, you have a big deficit, and if you cannot raise the
 money from private sources and the government helps you do it, I think it is fine.
 The government spends a lot of money to improve the quality of life, so it is not
 inconsistent that it should put some money into our organizations.

S: With your business acumen, do you think that you could design an orchestra that
 would largely support itself, without government help?

T: No. It just is not the money. People will not pay enough to support a good quality
 musical operation. I do not think. Once you get down to popular music, it is the
 opposite, the performers make millions. As you go into a higher level, you lose more


 -6-