plus the fact that they were exposed to a lot of people who had a lot of ideas. D--You knew Leonard and Jack pretty well. Did you ever get an impression i that they were really surprised at how big the company got and how successful it was? S--No. I don't think that they were surprised. I just think that they took things in their stride. They reached a plateau and they were then going to go for the next plateau. I've never really known that they were surprised. D--Were they pretty confident? S--Confident. But again, they didn't start from scratch to be the biggest in the world. As they hit a certain point, the thing grew. They would then look at the growth and decide to go on. But they were always determined to grow. They were never content to stay each day as to where they were. And to take their money and run so to speak. They would look at what they had. I think they enjoyed all the thing the money gave them. I don't think they ever used money as their criteria, otherwise they would have quit a long time ago. Leonard was in business until the day that he died. And he sure as hell could have quit at any stage of that business after the first five, eight, or ten years and reaped the rewards, particularly when the company was sold. Both of them. They didn't quit. their desire was to grow. But they sure as hell could have quit a long time ago. D--So, the new business challenges was the reason for being in business? S--Right. I always thought that if they stopped working they would die. But they both died working. Jack in his late 50's and Leonard in his early 70's. They could of quit and taken their money and run like hell. They liked to live good. Money was never the criteria though, in my opinion. D--When did the idea come that they were looking to sell Gulf American?