John Chinnelly is alive in Florida. He is now a deacon in the Catholic Church. When the company was sold he left the company and opened up several real estate offices in Hollywood, Florida. Then he turned them over to his son and he went into seminary and became a deacon. Back in the sixties we called him Father John. Now I call him Deacon John. He was a little under the level of Ed and Ken. He worked with the Jack. He travelled the country, in sales to various parties, around the country with Jack. And he loved Jack like a father. They were the same age. Jack had Ed and Ken and John Chinelly. More so, Eddie and Ken. He worked with very very close to them and they would do whatever he said and he would do whatever they wanted. And that was the relation- ship. That relationship was that close with everybody, of his key people. Whenever there was a happy occasion or a sad occasion, they were there. D--That was for Jack or that was for Leonard too? S--Leonard too. They had a family. They had a big family. They really loved their people. Very, very unusual people. I say that not because they are part of my family. But because this is the way they lived their lives. D--That's the impression that live gotten by talking to other people too. S--Once you came with them, you were part of their family. They did things quietly. They supported people quietly, if something happened they were very quiet. Ex-employees, etc. They've supported for years and years. And Leonard was doing it until the day that he died. And so was Jack. D--So there was more to them than just the image of ruthless money makers? S--They were, not that they weren't aggressive people in their lives, Leonard more so though than Jack. But there was the side of them that was so