D--And you would let Leonard and Jack know? How long was that going on?

 Was that going on all the way through?

S--No. When your business is small you don't have problems. When your

 business gets big you start having problems. I would say about the

 middle of the sixties the company really started to go to hell. We would

 hire people and it got to be a problem with everybody. We were the

 biggest. We took a lot of heat. Some of it was deserved.

D--Did the company, Gulf American have a lot of competition from the other

 companies like General Development and stuff like that or were they

 pretty much just doing their own thing?

S--The competition never bothered anybody at Gulf American. We came to

 Florida and General development was like number one. They had

 started this thing. They were the original with Deltona. The Mackles

 were the original owners with Deltona. We were like number three and

 we were growing. We were the innovators in marketing in that business.

 We started the parties, the house parties. We did a lot of things that

 were real innovative. But the competition never bothered Leonard and

 Jack. They did their own thing. They didn't look at what the other

 companies--yes, they looked at what the other companies were doing sales

 wise. At least I felt they were never bothered by the competition.

 They innovated a lot of their ideas, especially in marketing. They

 had a lot of good people, like Pacelli and Kenny. A couple people who

 worked out of Baltimore with jack, John Chinelly, who was fantastic.

 He worked covering the various marketing areas. John Chinelly worked

 very very close with Jack. he was a great motivator of people. Jack

 used to call him Father John because he loved his church. he was the guy

who would get you in a meeting and really, really get you all gassed up.