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B: It will not be a bottleneck.

C: And then the bridges are time-consuming, of course.

B: What about future improvements to the surface streets, like Lois itself and Dale
 Mabry itself. Was there a thought then that those streets would need to be made
 wider as years went by?

C: I am sure it was thought of on the part of the engineers who were familiar with
 the traffic count, and where is the traffic coming from and where is it going? At
 that time, the federal bureau of roads was not too much interested in that. It was
 a state problem or a local problem. A lot of those roads are state roads,
 Hillsborough [Avenue], for instance. That was a state road, and therefore the
 state had to furnish the funds to do that with. There would be improvement of the
 approaches to the interchange. But there were others that were just city streets,
 that then that became a city problem. Then the road department and the cities
 cooperated. The county gets some of the tax money, as you know, to build, to be
 spent on secondary roads and things of that nature. Sometimes you make a
 state road in order to spend the tax money on it. That has been done so it could
 be designated a state road. Ashley Street was one of them.

B: Apparently, Mr. Van Camp had quite some lengthy battles with the State Road
 Department planners about the Ashley Street interchange. I guess that was a
 controversy right down through the months when it was under construction.

C: I do not think Mr. Van Camp ever gave up on his position, but once they start
 construction, there is not a hell of a lot you can do about it. But he did insist, and
 I think to a great extent that he was right. A lot of things that Mr. Van Camp said
 should be done were things that should have been done, and either the road
 department or the federal bureau of roads did not do it, because they did not
 want the city dictating to them or they did not have the funds to do it with.

B: Did they sometimes offer to let the city do it if the city would come up with the
 money, or the state?

C: I am sure there have been some changes in some of the designs if somebody
 said, okay, I will come up with the money to do this change, not in the basic
 interstate system itself but in approaches and things of that nature.

B: Do you remember what the things were that Mr. Van Camp wanted that he could
 not get?

C: No. I mean, you are talking about what now, forty years?

B: Well, the Ashley Street interchange remained a problem for quite some number