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L: I cannot in any specific instances, but I knew that was something that went on.
 That they tried to do the things that white people did.

P: Like with the balls, for example?

L: Yes, to our detriment, there was a lot of things we took from white people that
 were not right. They were not right for us.

P: Something else that I found, is this the case? Did a lot of middle class black
 people, did they vacation a lot?

L: Not really, not then. They thought they were not in position financially.

P: Something that I found, looking through the old Sentinel bulletins, is on the
 Society page a lot of people would mention where they were going to vacation.
 Going on a luxury liner and so forth.

L: That came later. Early on, that was not so. Only a few people during those
 days, could say I have been to Europe or France or California. As time passed,
 many, many more. You had clubs coming together forming money so that
 you could go on vacations. Groups and so on, you had that developing, but not
 early, early on. As you look at the Sentinel, progressively, more of that occurs
 until today, almost anybody can say to you, well, I have been to France, I have
 been to The Riviera, I have been to Hawaii, I have been to South America, I have
 been to the Islands, Jamaica, Nassau, these are very close. At first, they went to
 nearby places, then later on, they moved to farther distances, like Hawaii,
 California, Europe and so all across Tampa today, you could touch almost the
 average person and ask, have you been to New York?, oh, yes. Have you been
 to France?, oh, yes.

P: The last section, and this is going to be brief.

L: Hold on just a moment.

[Break in tape]

P: I turned the tape recorder back on and I am about to ask Reverend Lowry about
 some of the interesting people that he ran into. I understand that you knew
 Dubois?

L: Yes, Dr. Dubois was an instructor at Atlanta University during my sojourn at
 Morehouse College as a student. I first met him in 1935 and he learned that I
 was from Brooklyn. He also lived in Brooklyn and every extended holiday that we
 had, I became his chauffeur. I got free trips home driving for him.