R: That is what it would be called here. I dislike the term, but I guess I
 have to say, yes. I hope I am not treading on any toes, but I think that
 the education people are guilty of something that could happen in the law
 school. That is, too much pedagogy and not enough substance. I think
 you ought to get people educated as really good people and then, if it is
 necessary, teach them how to teach.

D: Yes.

R: But instead of starting in as an education major, you know. This makes my
 hair stand up on end. I am old-fashioned.

D: What is your daughter's name?

R: Susan. N. M. N., I guess they say. No middle name, which was very
 distressing to her. But she now has one.

D: What is her married name? Or does she continue to use Stephens?

R: Winn. My daughter-in-law followed much the same course. She has done
 some teaching, but now has two youngsters to take care of. He is also in
 the Humane Society, among many other things. She is the Humane Society in
 Lakeland, and you know about what it amounts to.

D: You said that you were not buddy-buddy with the students. How would you
 describe your relationship with your students?

R: Cordial and puzzling. I say that for this reason. I invariably kept an
 open door when I was teaching. Even when I was director of the program,
 my door always stood open. That was the door between my office and the
 secretary's office. But I used to tell students, "Please come to see me
 if I can help you." I did say that I wished they would come with a well
 thought out question or several questions I was most happy to talk with
 them. But I did not want them to come in and just say, "Well, I just do
 not know what this course is all about?" Or something like that. Maybe
 that frightened people away. Maybe I should not have said that, but I had
 fewer students coming to see me than I expected. Possibly I am a little
 austere, or something like that. I do not know. I hope not. If I
 attended a social function I have the usual bunch of students around me to
 talk to and seemingly they were interested in me, so I do not know.

D: Finally, I wanted to ask you about your son and where he is practicing.

R: He is with what I consider the best law firm in the state. That is
 Holland & Knight. I knew Senator Holland years ago. [Spessard L.
 Holland, Governor of Florida, (1941-1945)] He was a Phi Delta Phi and we
 often shared the speakers' table at Phi Delta Phi functions, especially at
 Homecoming breakfasts and that sort of thing. But he was dead before Rich
 went to law school. Chesterfield Smith was the principal partner when
 Rick went down there. [Chesterfield Smith, University of Florida College
 of Law, class of 1948] I inducted Chesterfield into Coif, as a matter of
 fact, when I was president of the local chapter. I did not have anything
 to do with his going there really. I would like to make that clear. He
 did remarkably well in law school. He led his class. I think I had
 nothing to do with that. As I said, I was not even here the first year


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