157 L: I knew something of that. P: I have a copy of that and it was his doctoral dissertation at Michigan. He worked with Ulrich Phillips, and of course there was no more important southern historian at the time. But after he arrived in Gainesville, whether it was because of an overloaded teaching program or what, he never did anything more in the way of research and writing. L: I sort of had the impression that he wasn't doing any research, and that he just enjoyed being a professor. P: That was also true of Ancil Payne, and to a degree of Dr. Leake. Dr. Leake did not publish. L: No. P: Of course, the emphasis wasn't on publishing then. L: It was on teaching. P: They were overburdened at a school like Gainesville with classes and preparation and grading tests. You didn't have test graders in those day. L: And no encouragement to publish. P: No. So, it is true that Dr. Leake and Payne and Glunt did not publish at all during that period, which is unfortunate, because they had the ability to do work had they wanted to be research scholars. It had to wait for a new group to come, like C. Vann Woodward and Rembert Patrick and pepple like that who began to come into the university just before World War II. L: Yes. I think probably Manning had done more in that respect through the social sciences than anyone else, by making it possible for them to have a place where they could publish, in the Southern Political Science Quarterly, for example. It was a place for the publication of regional articles and it was very rare that the American Political ScienceSReview would take an article from a southerner. P: And then Manning organized the Journal of Politics. L: That's what I'm thinking about, Journal of Politics. And after that a number of publications came into being. P: Bill was already beginning to publish in the 30s.