113 who didn't, about the lack of uniformity. At the same time I was trying to draw a pay scale for the health workers in the state of Florida, and trying to drive through the concept I gathered, that everyone should have the same increase unless there was a merit increase for some outstanding service; I believe in that. Either they ought to be fired or they ought to be given the same raise. P: How do you feel about the unions coming on to campus? L: I think that the fact that the university wouldn't set up such a system and they fought it; the university administration led to the unions. I feel we wouldn't have a union it they had developed--I hesitate to use the word democratic administration-- but developed an open administration with faculty participation. P: Are you optimistic about the future of higher education in Florida? L: Not especially. We have too many junior colleges and too many universities in my judgement. I favor more technical training among our younger people. I'm actually in favor of some type of universal service instead of other types of required service. I think we may have that some day. The universities have such a vested service in our young people, though, that they'll kill any proposal for universal type of service like that. But I believe that there needs to be a certain type of discipline among our young people that we don't have today, and that universal service would require it. I have dared to make this statement to some of my friends and it shocks them when I say that the day may come, mind you, yes, it may, when a lot of the people who are now frightened of the Soviet system, that's what I'd call it rather than Communism, may embrace it in the interest of social discipline. A lot of the difficulties we're having with young people, and with other people too in our country and the other parts of the world today, are the great inequalities in wealth. And the obvious fact of great inequalities; you see it on television, the way the wealthy people live; you see in the movies how the wealthy people live. The movie stars never lived in a hut, and yet there are so many people who know what kind of houses they have to live in and how can they believe in the system we have? P: Are you badly disturbed by the behavior or lack of discipline of young people on the campuses today, the prevalence of drugs and the so-called sexual immorality?