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 Thomas: It would almost have to be, I mean, because you know .

 W.D.V.: Because we were looking at registration today and Bill gave

 us the figures starting in '54 with the elections, that's the time that

 the Republican party started in this state.

 Thomas: I would say that just looking at the figures, I think that they

 had more or less the same kinds of Republicans here that they had in

 Alabama, maybe a little better, but most of them came from other states,

 Wisconsin, Michigan and .

 W.D.V.: I didn't mean to interrupt you, I just wanted to ..

 Thomas: No, that's all right. I haven't looked at the data and been

 able to really see, but I would say that it would probably have to be

 about '54. Well, to get back to Kirk, Cramer was in Congress, very

 successful, well liked, very well respected, author of some of the best

 legislation that has ever been put on the books. He had a water

 pollution bill concerning Tampa Bay way back in, I think that it was

 1956, '58, 'way before Ralph Nader ever heard of pollution, ecology.

 Just a great guy. And he worked like hell building the party. He

 went all over the state, all over the South preaching the Republican

 philosophy. And he helped our senator now, Gurney, was the mayor

 of Winter Park, he's a native of Maine. And Cramer helped Gurney get

 elected to Congress, campaigned like hell for him and everything else.

 And in 1968, when the Democratic senator, Smathers, got in trouble over

 the Bobby Baker deal among other things, and decided not to run for

 reasons of his health the old saw down here was that "it was

 because of his health. Everybody was sick of him." And he didn't run

 and a very liberal Democrat won the primary, Leroy Collins who had been

 Johnson's representative at the Selma march and that was the kiss of death




From the Southern Oral History Program, #4007, Interview /4-0 in the Southern Historical Collection,
University of North Carolina Library, Chapel Hill. FOR REFERENCE ONLY: PERMISSION TO
PUBLISH MUST BE REQUESTED. WARNING: MOST MANUSCRIPTS ARE PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT.