M: I just worked for him. He was a well-known person who had extremely
 interesting work. A part of my job was fighting cases that involved what he
 had done with his own personal property in the thirties, and this was in the
 late forties to early fifties.

P: How long did you work with this firm?

M: I was with that firm for a comparatively short period of time. I guess it would
 have been 1949 to 1952. At that point I received an offer to become the
 treasurer of an interstate barge line.

P: Was this the David C. Bintliff interest?

M: Yes, that is right. Mr. Bintliff had a mortgage banking company, he had a
 lot of real estate, he had a lot of personal oil interests, and he was one of
 four people who had set up an interstate barge line to provide a job for his
 brother. Part of my job was to be the treasurer, and part of it was to keep
 an eye on his brother.

P: Your old M.P. experiences were coming back into play. [laughter]

M: I stayed with them and got some practice before the Fifth Circuit Court of
 Appeals, which was in New Orleans, in working with the Interstate Commerce
 Commission on various permits for the interstate barge line.

P: But Bintliff was still based in Houston?

M: Yes, that is right.

P: How old were you by then? You were born in 1918, so we are moving up
 a bit in years. You were in your middle thirties.

M: I had gotten married when I was thirty-three, and that was when I was still
 in the law firm. I was not yet with Bintliff.

P: I see. So you went with Bintliff when you were in your mid thirties.

M: That is right. I stayed with him until his brother could not stand me, and he
 fired me.

P: Mr. Bintliff fired you because of his brother's complaints?

M: His brother fired me. Mr. Bintliff, being very embarrassed at that point, gave
 me a job as his comptroller, which meant working with all of his interests.
 My job was to try to do the logistical backup for him. It was said of him
 that if he did not have two new deals working by 10:00 every morning he got
 a stomach ache. He was a man who had a lot of balls up in the air, and he

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